Are Men Better Fathers Than Society Thinks?

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June 19, 2009

Are Men Better Fathers Than Society Thinks? A little while back, we had a blast when the some of the Men of Momversation came on to talk about what it was like being married to mom bloggers. Since then, you have been asking us to bring on more men. We thought, what better time than Fathers Day to do it again?

So we asked one of our favorite dad bloggers, Danny Evans from dadgonemad to do a "Dadversation" about how dads balance work and family, and the changing roles in parenting. Joining Danny are Jon Armstrong, Heather's husband from dooce, Marcus Jennings, Karen's husband from chookooloonks, and Chris Loesch, Dana's husband from mamalogues.

The question they're exploring: Are Men Better Fathers Than Society Thinks? What do you think? Do men get a bad parenting rap? Join the "Dadversation" by commenting.

Panelists

Dana Loesch - Mamalogues Heather Armstrong - Dooce Karen Walrond -Chookooloonks

Keywords

Family Parenting

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16 Comments

Daddy Scratches

I must admit, it drives me a bit nuts that dads are generally seen as the big doofuses who surely can't handle the task of caring for the children by themselves.

My favorite? Telling someone that my wife is going out on her own, and getting this:

"Oh, so you're babysitting?"

Umm, wha ...? No, I'm not babysitting; I'm BEING A FATHER!

http://DaddyScratches.com

Fri, 2009-06-19 12:52

kristanhoffman

Woot! Thanks for another great Dadversation. Seriously, I thought they all made valuable and eloquent contributions.

I think it's really great to see men who are "into" being dads. :) And Marcus is right: it sucks that "anything above Bad is Good" = the standard for fathers. Because it robs really good dads of the credit due to them. (And, of course, it places a heavier burden on the mothers.)

That said, I appreciate what Chris pointed out: let's face it, physiologically women are "designed" to be primary caretakers, at least at the beginning. I think it would be silly to overlook the obvious factors like that. So splitting responsibilities *fairly* isn't always *equally*. To his point, dads can help their kids by helping their wives. Maybe it's not as direct, but I believe it's just as important.

Other thoughts:

• Um, how cute is it that Jon enjoys being "second string"? Very sweet to see his respect for his wife and his love for his daughter (now daughters!).

• I am really digging Marcus's accent...

• Also, I sort of chuckled and shook my head at Marcus's anecdote about the comments he gets when staying home with the kid/s when Karen is on a trip -- BUT I have to confess, when I was left home alone with my dad as a kid, I was definitely the one asking, "Omigod are we going to be okay?" I mean, my dad has burned BBQ...

• I agree with all of them that our generation is starting to break the molds and stereotypes down -- both for moms and dads -- BUT I will say that this is not an equal movement, even in America. Socioeconomic and cultural factors are huge when it comes to gender roles, especially in parenting. And I think that's where some of the progress gets slowed... Not every group is moving/maturing at the same rate.

Fri, 2009-06-19 10:13

LouEffie

I know in my situation, my husband is an equal partner in the raising of our son and maintenance of our household. We both work full time outside of the home, so when we are home with our son, we share in all the responsibilities (and fun). I just blogged about this very thing recently and said this....

I'm very lucky to have a husband who helps A LOT. And the wonderful thing about Rob is that he doesn't look at it as though he's helping me. He looks at it as part of his duties as an equal parent in our household and he just does his share. He cooks, he cleans, he changes diapers, he sings penguin songs to Will every night. He's my hero. I've listened to so many of my friends talk about how their husbands won't help them around the house, and don't really participate with their kids. This makes me sad, because it does seem as though some men out there really still look at this whole parenthood thing as something that the woman should be in charge of. And if she happens to ask for help, there's a lot of moaning and sighing and acting as though you're putting him out. I love that Rob fits into the category of men who actually want to be a part of the process. And I believe that there are more and more fathers out there who fit into this category. The numbers are growing! Of course, there are times when Will walks into the room and says, "I went poo poo," and Rob and I rush to yell, "NOT IT!" but all in all, we're in this thing together. That makes me know that having another child with him is not only okay, it's incredible.

P.S. Great episode! I really enjoy hearing from the dads.

Fri, 2009-06-19 11:17

AmyEats

Anyone else notice that these Dads are way off the charts on the "sensitive" side?

Where did our Momversation Ladies find these "men" - they look good, but they don't sound like any man I've ever met (who was straight).

Love it!!

Fri, 2009-06-19 11:22

Dad Gone Mad

AmyEats, that really hurt. You totally made me cry and the tears got all over my skirt.

Fri, 2009-06-19 11:39

bwankel

I think there's a generous handful of families that aren't traditional and just do what works for them. I know several work-at-home and stay-at-home dads, and dads who took paternity leave, etc. And there aren't really any media images that illustrate that, only the other side if it. But, I also know a lot of husbands who truly believe there is women's work and men's work, and the two are seperate and clearly defined. I know one husband who makes no secret that he thinks when he takes care of his kids, he's doing his wife a favor. And she works. Not saying it's acceptable, just saying it's out there.

But, I see even some of the most educated, modern, egalitarian families fall into this pattern, and I don't know why. I do have one theory: as Chris mentions in the video, in the early days of a child's life, it's definitely the woman that nature intends to have as the primary caregiver. The baby develops inside her, she breastfeeds, and yes, baby and mother form a very special bond because of their shared experience of it all. And I think somewhere down the line, when baby is less dependent on mom specifically, it's just so much easier for a family to stay in that routine even though they don't have to. That, or possibly the mother becomes a micro manager and feels like her husband can't possibly do things the same as her, and therefore not as good as her (actually sometimes kids react poorly when something is done in a different manner, so there's some logic here too).

I work at home and take care of the kid and almost all household duties. But, personally I get a lot of enjoyment out of taking care of my family. And my husband does plenty around the house when he's got the time. If circumstances were such that we had to switch roles, we'd both be on board. It's just about both of us doing what needs to be done, not about each of us doing our jobs.

Fri, 2009-06-19 11:52

The Moxie Report

My husband is an excellent dad...as long as his Crackberry is out of reach...and the television isn't on.
The rest of the time he's awesome.

Tracy

Fri, 2009-06-19 17:03

greysons_mom

Go Karen! Your husband is H-O-T!

Fri, 2009-06-19 18:29

KTab

I think that men are DEFINITELY better fathers than society thinks. Even if you take the most traditional role of the father (going to work to earn a living to support the family), that's an incredible fatherly sacrifice to make. When I was home on maternity leave, I saw just how much it tore my husband up to have to leave his son behind to "bring home the bacon." Even now, when our son's sick, I'm the one who takes time off work (husband is a contractor with no personal / sick / vacation time) to care for him. This last go round with the flu was particularly hard on my husband because my son SO wanted Daddy to love on him and make him feel better, and, as a father, that's all my husband wanted to do, but someone has to pay for the medication and the doctor, so off to work he went.

And I love what Chris said (I think it was Chris, anyway) about sometimes the best thing a Dad can do is support the mom. When my son was younger, I was the one who got up at night with him, having gotten into the habit of it while breast feeding. After he was weened, by husband would ALWAYS take weekend morning shifts so that I could catch up on all the sleep I missed during the week. And honestly, that was the only thing that got me through the first year. I'm sure he would have liked to have slept in, too, but to give that up so that the mommy didn't lose her mind from sleep deprivation was a wonderful gesture to make.

And stay at home dads? Forget about it!!! I love a guy who can buck tradition and stay home to raise the kids. I think that, because it's the "mother's role" to care for the children, society takes a harsher view of a man who lets his wife earn a living while he raises the kids, which, to me, is utterly ridiculous. My stay at home dad brother in law watches not only his two daughters but my son as well, and I can't think of any better way to teach my son that when he grows up he can be whatever he wants. You want to just be a Daddy? You do it, my son!!! I know that the BIL struggled with staying home, feeling "less of a man" because of it, but, like Jon said, I think he eventually came to realize all the things he would miss if he were the working parent, and now I doubt he would trade his job for all the money in the world.

At any rate, I think that, regardless of the Daddy you choose to / have to be, I think Dads are doing the exact same thing Moms are: trying to be the best parent they can be, and give the poor bastards a little more credit, will ya!

Fri, 2009-06-19 20:04

Yggdrasil

Men are certainly capable of being better fathers than society thinks. Part of the reason why society has this general opinion in the first place is because, historically, men just haven't been as involved in the lives of their children as much as women have. It was once so much more practical for the wife, who would be out of commission while pregnant and breast feeding (which was almost always a constant state), to be the one who stayed home.

Things are changing, though. As was mentioned, it's now so much more acceptable for men to be stay at home dads. I think society is beginning to realize that dads have just as much to offer as moms.

My parents split when I was a baby, so there was a lot of single parenting going on. Either my mom had me and my siblings, or my dad did. My dad rose to the occasion and ended up being a better parent. Not to put down my mom, but she wasn't really cut out for it (she placed her career before family, and I don't blame her for that.) Where she was short tempered, he was level headed and logical. Where she was an atrocious cook who never cooked, he was pretty talented in the kitchen (our sit down meals with him were really, really beneficial.) Where she was too stressed out to deal with nighttime rituals, he took the time to read us stories and tuck us in. Little things that my mom didn't seem to have the time for, like gingerly brushing my hair and taking us to the park, my dad did. It really added up.

As more and more fathers get the chance to shine, I think people will begin to realize that they can be so competent and gifted when it comes to parenting, even more so than mothers in many cases. Being female isn't alone enough to make a great parent, and being male isn't alone enough to condemn a parent as being incompetent. I've often observed that one of the two parents has more innate parenting ability than the other, but we're just beginning to see that it's not always the woman with the magic parenting touch as more and more men play bigger roles in their children's lives.

I'm glad that society is starting to evolve, and I hope that more men like my father are recognized as great parents.

Sat, 2009-06-20 02:12

kristi

I totally feel like Dad's get a bad wrap. And I do see some Dad's who do act like children themselves HOWEVER I think it has become such a stereotype that Dad's don't do anything. My husband does just as much...and sometimes more, then I do at home and as a parent. He really makes a conscious effort to be completely present as a husband and father. I agree with "Daddy Scratches" about the baby-sitting bit. My husband does not baby-sit...he parents!! And to Marcus....I know I could leave my son for a week and my husband could do the same job I do with ease.

Dad's need more credit!

Great post!

Sat, 2009-06-20 06:29

Mindy

Girls, I think I fell a little bit in love with all of your husbands this morning.

This may be the best episode yet. Made me grin and all my kids were riveted.

Danny, Marcus, Chris, & Jon ROCK and should be way more involved in this thing. I mean, what else do they do all day? Come on! Put down the knitting and sack up! : )

xoxoxoxo

Mindy

Sat, 2009-06-20 07:37

Georgia Jena

Mindy wins a prize for most awesome comment. We love you, Mindy!

Fellas, you're precious. Keep posting. We love seeing (and sure, hearing) from you!

Sun, 2009-06-21 03:23

francesca

Do dads get a raw deal? You mean when they change a diaper, fold some laundry, take their kid for a walk or heat up some dinner and then people start shouting WAHOO! LET'S THROW THAT MAN A PARADE!

No. Dads do not get the short end of the stick. When dads do all the things a mom is "expected" to do, people start talking about awarding Nobel Prizes. When moms do all the things a dad is "expected" to do (for instance, work 40 hrs a week outside the home or spend the weekend working on the house or the yard), people think those moms are shirking their motherly duties. If a mom has a beer while staying home with the kid, she's an unfit parent. If a dad has a beer while staying home with the kid, hey, how could he not? Parenting is hard work and that dad is going to NEED to relax and take a load off.

It's terrible that there is still a double standard about parenting, but, like Jon and Marcus mention, the mindset has been slowly advancing throughout the past few decades. What people don't seem to understand is that wondering whether or not dads need MORE accolades for being parents is simply exacerbating the problem. Dads--wanting people to congratulate you on your excellent parenting skills is just moving the mindset BACKWARDS. Parenting is an equal partnership agreement. The next time a dad feels like bemoaning the fact that nobody gives him enough pats on the back for actually parenting his kid, he should first stop and think about how often people want to berate his wife for wanting to work outside the home.

Are these men good dads? Absolutely. But there is no reason they shouldn't be. Just like the women of Momversation are good moms. Like I said: equal partnership agreement. There's no parade for that.

Mon, 2009-06-22 12:16

acm

Man, my hub runs into this craziness frequently, especially if he goes to any tot classes (where everybody else is a mom or nanny) -- the linguistic pretzels by the teachers, alone, are a hoot (or a bummer, depending on your mood). We call it the Not the Bride syndrome -- ran into the same thing during wedding planning, where he was never allowed to make/convey our decisions; they would only trust things they heard from me. Maybe some women are really Bridezillas, but there should be some allowance for couples that want to treat their male halves as equal partners -- at some point, can't we all be adults, in parenting as all else? If so, then stay-at-home dads shouldn't feel sheepish, be congratulated for holding up their end, or asked if they can handle it all; nor should women get all the "are you going to quit working?" questions when anticipating a baby -- that would sure be nice!!

(p.s.) I'd like to deflate the "mysterious bond formed during pregnancy" balloon right now! sure, I felt her hiccups in advance, but I had *no* more idea how to handle her or get through the day than hub did once she actually arrived! (I was a little more likely to hear her cries, but that was literally it.) Because he stayed home initially, we figured it out together, but assuming that women Know What They're Doing is just perpetuating a myth (and futher burdening exhausted and frightened new mothers)... At best, greater babysitting experience might make a difference, but not every girl is excited by that option for teen income!

Tue, 2009-06-23 09:21

Kelda

If one is looking at Maury and Springer - oh, boy yes, fathers are way better than that. Huge exaggeration I know - but that's what the media feeds the masses. There is that stereotype or the 'manly man' falls into the Al Bundy category and they are glorified in their manliness. Having grown up with that it's become an instinctual reaction that if a man goes even slightly beyond that facet of husband/father, then WOW - they are awesome and should be praised!

I guess my point is that, yes, a good father should be appreciated, but it should also be expected. It seems the expectations (in that area) for mothers runs amok and we don't get kudos for doing our best at loving, feeding, playing with, protecting, providing and teaching our children - but those expectations shouldn't have a gender specification to them.

Now, the fact that you fellaa will speak about this, on camera . . well, that's just plain hot.

Sat, 2009-07-04 19:25