Childfree by Choice

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February 11, 2009

There's a growing movement across the blogosphere of people who have chosen to remain childless. It's called childfree by choice, and its proponents claim societal discrimination due to their decision not to have kids. But does their desire to remain kid-free cause them to look down on moms and their children? Heather Armstrong from Dooce asks the panelists, "What do you think about the childfree by choice folks?"

What do you think about people who are childfree by choice? Do you think they're anti-kid? Or do you see it as just another life decision? Are you childfree by choice? Join the Momversation by commenting in one of our related forums below:

Panelists

Dana Loesch - Mamalogues Heather Armstrong - Dooce Rebecca Woolf - Girl's Gone Child

Keywords

Parenting

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184 Comments

badmummy

Before Erin was born I used to get "so...when are you going to have kids?" even before I was married! It got really old really quickly, I seriously considered getting a tee shirt that read "I'm not having children because...not that it's any of your business".

It really frustrates me that people think it's any of their business what other people do with their reproductive selves. If you have choose to have one child or a Duggar sized brood, as long as you treat them well it's none of anyone's business.

There are freaks on both sides of the argument. People calling childfree people selfish because they choose not to have children to look after them in their old age. And then the people who think that parents should have the right to "abort" up until their child is old enough to be entirely self sufficient.

Wed, 2009-02-11 01:47

Mindy

BlogHer 2006?

Anyone? Anyone?

Wed, 2009-02-11 03:54

badmummy

What happened?

Wed, 2009-02-11 05:17

Mindy

I can't find anything in my archives, but I am sure there is plenty out there. There were one or more attendees who were highly irritated and resentful of the children present at the conference. For some of us, it was a chance for a family vacation - I brought my three kids and boyfriend, and we had a blast swimming, etc, in the common areas, by the way. Not in the middle of the sessions.

It started with someone blogging about the banal, inane and mindless (not to mention thoughtless) droning of moms, going on about their kids, showing pictures of their kids, etc. This person was at a table NEAR the other moms, during the cocktail reception. No one asked her to participate, and she could have moved. Instead she went on with a post deriding the disgusting products of our smelly vaginas and our total insensitivity to those who choose to be childless. It made many, many people cranky. I wish I could remember the name of that blog. Anyone?

Wed, 2009-02-11 08:57

badmummy

I tend to be out of the loop on...most things, but I think I remember reading about that.

Wed, 2009-02-11 14:29

coffeemeow

I think a lot of us in our 20's do not think about children... esp. those of us who are career focused. I've been busy running after my career and a stable relationship is something i wish for, not aim for. It's only on the "i really wish I can get into a stable relationship" bin and children don't even cross my mind....

Having said that, on my first date w/ my current stable boyfriend, we both agreed children is not something we shoot for as it is much easier to "go with the flow", per say... he's in investment banking and his life is as insane as mine :)

Wed, 2009-02-11 04:25

nicnicnic

i would be really interested in seeing some of these childfree by choice blogs. this episode was fascinating to me because while i know that there are people who choose that lifestyle (some of my extended family members), i was unaware of a blogging community that existed around this purpose, to promote this choice.

i think i'm about 2+ years behind a bunch of you in terms of blog savy, which is cool. i'm learning so much and enjoying it all. but i would be interested in seeing these blogs, merely to educate myself.

i related to what rebecca said so much regarding being 27 and with kids, as i am the same age with a 9 month old. the ironic part is that my husband is in the military and stereotype exists that military wives are always barefoot and pregnant starting at age 19. not necessarily true... at least in my experience. having just moved to a new city, i am so wanting to make mom-friends that are close in age with me, have children close in age to my son, simply to bond over commonalities.

i guess that is what it all comes down to... people building relationships/communities to bond for various reasons. who am i to judge that?

Wed, 2009-02-11 05:55

janey_13

I'm child free by choice. My husband and I made the choice not to have children before we got married, we've been married for almost three years now. I think the most annoying thing is getting asked "When are you going to have kids?" and then people not respecting our choice and calling us selfish for not having kids. I love kids, especially my niece and nephew, but I just don't want to have any of my own.

I'm fine with other people having kids, that's their choice as much as it's my choice to not have kids, but I do get irritated with families as big as the Duggars, for example. Having that many children is a HUGE drain on natural resources that will just keep going and going as their kids grow up to have that many kids and on and on. I don't think it's responsible to have that many children.

I don't mind that there isn't a maternity leave equivalent for child free people (though I love Dooce's idea!), but maybe it's because both my husband and I own our own businesses and work from home and dads don't get much of a paternity leave either. I do mind that parents get tax breaks for children and think there should be some type of compromise like tax breaks for parents with up to two children and then no tax breaks from there on.

As much as I hate people not respecting my choice not to have kids, I'm also annoyed at these people that are militant about not having kids and giving the rest of us a bad rap! I find it hard to understand people who wish to be treated equally as everyone else to hate so much on people who differ in their opinions.

Wed, 2009-02-11 06:14

aclaton

I have always known I do not want to be a mommy, but I am laughing about the fact that there is a label to name people like me now. Why must we always label and “try to figure each other out”? Not having kids doesn’t make me a selfish person, or limit my life. I know that having children opens many people up emotionally, but there are also downsides to having children, and I have seen friends who have become mothers change, and it's not always good. There definitely is a stigma that having children will change your life for the best, but I don’t believe that I can’t be a better person if I do not have children.

I refuse to think of myself as "childless by choice" and alienate myself from friends who are different from me. I'm not a mommy and some of my friends are, and yet the world still spins.

Wed, 2009-02-11 06:16

Pat

I just can't believe that there are child-free by choice blogs.. well I do understand their need to show the world that there are people who chose not to have children because of whatever and are happy with their decision... but as someone who is constantly being look down on in public because of my children (yes they do that), I think that if they want to be respected for their choice they have to respect others for theirs.

Wed, 2009-02-11 06:18

Well, the reasons for having cf blogs and forums is the same as for parenting blogs and support groups: First of all, to discuss topics with like-minded people who at the root have something in common: they do not plan on having kids at all. Like mommy blogs, there are other and varied topics discussed and of course this is a place mainly for ranting. Ranting you ask? Yes. We need to rant too. There are many parents who think that parenting stops at birth (having a child does not make one a parent more than owning a piano makes one a pianist) and they allow their kids to run wild without control and who think nothing of the right of other people to enjoy a nice meal out, for example. That's why we need a place to let the steam out. Would you rather we start screaming at parents in public?

I would also like to point out that people who claim they are chidfree for now, are in fact childless. There is a vast difference. Childless denotes a want for children (wheter one can or cannot have them). Childfree means not wanting children ever.

Thu, 2009-03-26 03:31

YogaMamaMe

Sometimes we don't know where the "choice" is coming from -- and it could be from a lot of pain.

I, for example, started on the whole love-marriage-kids thing pretty late. I met my husband when I was 36 and had been living in several family-oriented cities for some time. Although I had a great career and felt good about myself, it hurt -- a lot -- that I couldn't find a family. For a time, I decided I'd have a child on my own, but eventually I realized that wasn't really what I wanted, that I had to learn to parent myself.

Once I was married -- just shy of my 38th birthday -- I finally had the revelation . . . I REALLY WANT TO HAVE CHILDREN WITH THIS MAN! Only it took a while. More pain. There are many more women out there with "fertility issues" than you know until you are part of that community. And nothing is more painful than having miscarriage after miscarriage yet still having to roam the aisles of Target and see all the moms with their kids.

Happy ending for me -- turns out I had a treatable condition that was causing the miscarriages, and it's not called "being old." I had my first child at 40 and am now 42 and expecting my second any week now (yep, the old fashioned way). Yet I still got teary watching the video and remembering how hurt and angry I used to feel when I saw all those kids around me, all those fertile friends of mine, all those people who, yes, treat having kids as something that EVERYONE should do.

I've been in a position of not wanting to have kids; I've been a position of wanting to but not being able to; and now I'm in a position where I have them -- and spend much of my time writing about how hard it is to figure out who you are once you do.

I also write a lot about yoga precepts, which include compassion. So my conclusion on this momversation is that we should all try to find a way to be compassionate even for the angry people who are childless by "choice."

Wed, 2009-02-11 06:47

Joy

I was living the child free by choice lifestyle up until the magical day when my body and brain rebelled. I was that care free person choosing to work at a restaurant because the hours fit my world better vs. the consistent paycheck of the career that I went to school for. I didn't have kids to support so why not! Then one day when I was 29 I met my now husband. Before he came along, and even after we had been dating for a long time, I still felt strong in my convictions about not wanting kids. The most annoying thing I experienced, other than my mom and dad bugging me about it, was when other parents would almost force their kids on me to "show me how great they are". HELLO!! Instant birth control. But then something happened to me. I've never been able to explain it. When you're a young girl, from what I've read, late teens early 20's is when this biological urge kicks in and your body starts telling you that you must reproduce. Well, I never had that urge. There were actually times that I thought my biological clock was broken. But I didn't mind since I had made that choice that I would never have children. Then one day I woke up and the idea didn't seem as foreign to me. Next thing I know I'm talking to my now husband about it. Of course he thought I was nuts going back and forth on my feelings but luckily he would have married me either way, child bearing or childless. My biological clock was IMPOSSIBLE to ignore! It was like a time bomb went off in my head. I HAD to have a baby!!! So we did, and after the first initial poopy diaper in the hospital with my mom telling me how to change it, I now feel that my life is complete. While I respect the childless by choice people for their right to not change dirty diapers, you can't fight biology. For as much as my brain told me not to my body refused to listen. If you are able to fight the urges off and your intentions and attitudes towards the child bearing are respectful, good for you and I respect your decision, but if you think that my choice to have a child is a drain on society then I might just have to say that maybe the world is better off without your cynical genes in it.

Wed, 2009-02-11 07:38

Thu, 2009-03-26 03:33

nicoleballet

Seeing what disadvantages come career-wise (at least in my field) for people who decide to have kids, I'm at a loss to why someone would be bitter over a co-worker taking maternity leave. I hardly think it gives them some sort of additional benefit or step up over someone who decides not to have a family. I can see being annoyed if co-workers just assume you'll be working around holidays and weekends or staying late because you don't have a family. Eh. Co-workers suck. The truth is, even if you have a family they'll just find another excuse for why you should stay late. Tax breaks? Ok, I get that, but adding up the other expenses of having a child doesn't seem to even that one out.

I understand why someone who has chosen not to have kids would hate being asked about it, but unfortunately this is the world that we live in. People are nosy busy bodies. In my opinion, I don't think that anyone should ask anybody else about such personal decisions unless they are close friends with them. Every one of us is getting the obnoxious questions, not just the ones who have decided not to have kids.

As for being bitter about kids being in public places, I agree when you are in public you go with the anticipation that there will be kids in the general vicinity. Having said that, I do expect parents to have control over these kids, for example, not letting them stand on their chairs at nice restaurants, tie their napkins around their neck and start singing 'America the Beautiful'. But events like this don't make me wish people wouldn't have kids. They make me want to yell at them 'DO YOU NOT SEE YOUR CHILD RIGHT NOW? ARE YOU BLIND?'

I guess my beef with the very opinionated blogger that you're referring to would be that I don't get why child-rearing families are targeted. People suck. People are rude, opinionated, nosy, awful people. Some of these people have kids, and some do not. So suck it up! Because every single one of us, kids or not has to deal with these people. You do not somehow receive special rude attention just because of a lifestyle decision.

Wed, 2009-02-11 08:13

bwankel

I didn't become aware of the childfree by choice movement until I was pregnant. I knew there were people out there who had made that choice, and I was totally fine with that (in fact, like Dana I thought for a while that I might be one of those people), but I didn't understand why they needed the support and awareness that they seek.

So, people ask a married couple "when will you have kids"? So what? You live in a society where that is the norm. If you go against the norm, in any situation, you'll have to expect a certain amount of this response. We were married 5 years before having kids, and got this all the time, but it never bugged me. Ever. I knew I had made a choice that not a lot of people make, and I'd have to probably explain it once in a while.

I don't understand what "rights" they think they are not getting. Most women in the US don't even receive maternity leave. And of the few that do, a lot of them don't get paid for it. Unfortunately, it's a rarity here. So I guess the equivalent would be paid vacation. Some employers give it, some don't. And the tax break? We got a ton of tax breaks before having our son--for being married, for paying interest on student loans, for only having one car, for being renters in college--tax breaks are out there, you just have to look for them. A tax break for not having a child and being married is also something that's been considered in other countries. Who knows, maybe it'll be considered here. The beauty of the US is that we get to tell our government what issues to consider and not consider. Let's embrace that freedom.

I am ALL FOR choice, and I COMPLETELY respect someone who is childfree by choice. But, like Heather, all I see/hear is negative and even hateful. I'm with them on the other side of the coin: let's not have like, 10+ children, that's quite irresponsible. But someone has to have kids, or say good-bye to our species. And when they turn their nose up at us for having the audacity to eat at a restaurant with our baby, I want to remind them--you were a child yourself at one point.

And, what of the couples who are childfree NOT by choice? These people are probably just twisting the dagger for them.

Wed, 2009-02-11 08:43

Erin

I don't fault anyone for making the choice to remain childless. I do think that they will miss out on some fantastic life experiences including completely unconditional love. BUT I am sure that as a mother of three I am missing out on things like a last minute trip to London, being able to do whatever I want whenever I want, more money. It is all about what you desire in life and that is okay, we don't all have to be the same!

I don't understand wanting equal rights though. I haven't read any of the "Childfree by Choice" information out there but based on what Heather said maternity leave and tax breaks are some of the rights they want.

First, maternity leave. Why would they want something like this? To write a book like Heather suggests? Well, that wouldn't really be fair. I don't think most women or men on maternity/paternity leave are writing the next great american novel. On maternity leave you are healing, surviving and trying to find the new rhythm in your family. Trust me, it's not a vacation!

Second, tax breaks. I believe the going rate is $1K per child. Hello, kids are EXPENSIVE! Food, clothes, diapers, toys, bigger car to carry the kids, gas to drive your kids all over town, sports, dance, child care, etc. WAY more than $1K/year. Why should they get extra tax breaks if they are just supporting themselves?

And you don't have to be "Childfree" to be annoyed by obnoxious children. Mine are well behaved and even they annoy me sometimes! But I don't understand the hatred and disgust toward children. They do understand that they were once children too, right?

Wed, 2009-02-11 08:49

rachelopoly

"They do understand that they were once children too, right?"

EXACTLY. That's what I do not get. How would they have felt if their parents were ridiculed and judged because they had chosen to have kids? I really really understand why someone would choose to remain childless. Its hard and you do miss out on a lot of things. BUT I don't understand these fanatical blogs and communities which seem to be pushing the idea that the world would be a better place without children. If we don't have children someday there won't be any adults...right?

Wed, 2009-02-11 11:21

Well, I went to see a doctor a couple of times, I went to school, I saw movies, doesn't mean I want to be a doctor, a teacher or an actress.
Personaly, I chose the cf path, because it's the right choice for me. I always thought I'd have kids, but it was always in a distant "someday". Then I met my husband and we both realized it wasn't a path we were interested in following. It was simply not for us (just like I didn't want to be a doctor or an astronaut). Not everybody is cut out to be a parent, and although I can afford it, I simply don't want to. For example, I cannot stand high pitched voices. That goes from the shrill of a baby to the red hair comedian. Kathy something, I forgot her name. It makes me want to run for the hills. I know myself perfectly well, and babies do a lot of crying. It's only one of the many reasons. There is as many reasons to be a parent as there is not to be. In the end, it goes down to knowing deep down what would make us happy, not what others (society, relatives, friends) expect from us. But I ask you this: Don't you think the main quality of a parent is actually wanting to be one? A child deserves a parent who wants him/her for the right reasons, otherwise the parent is going to do a lame job. Were you ever forced by peer pressure to do something you had no interest and would know perfectly well you would hate and would rather do something else. Another example: I don't like cars. For me they are all the same and take you from point A to point B. A friend pushed me and begged me over and over again to go to a car show with her, my then boyfriend and hers. I told her clearly I was not interested. After an hour or so, I said, fine I'll go to shut her up. Well, I was bored to tears and everyone had a miserable time because I was forced to do something I had no interest in in the first place. I can compare this with parents preaching to cf and cl how wonderful having a baby is. It is wonderful for THEM, but it's not the right choice for everyone. That is why cf don't like to be preached to by people who insist they miss out on something. And that's why some cf are fed up and would rather there be a world sans children. But you have to understand that there is a wide range of cf people: from the ones who like kids (some are teachers) to the ones who despise them, as there is a wide range of parents: from the wonderful ones who get to raise productive members of society to the ones who do an absolutely crappy job. The world is not black and white. Remember the cf rant only about lousy parents that we call BNP (breeders not parents) as opposed to the ones we rave about, the PNB (Parents not breeders) and that's the BNP you'll read about in CF blogs and forums. Ok, well, I hope my explanations shed some light about the cf movement.

Thu, 2009-03-26 04:31

Mindy

Just a general comment? If anyone has to be talked into having kids, they SHOULD NOT have kids. Even when you are desperate to have them, want nothing more than a family, and are willing to take on the responsibility and sacrifices, you still want to feed the kids to wild animals sometimes. I don't care how devoted you are, there are days when you want to give them back. (Not that you wouldn't claw anyone to death who tried to take them.)

If two people have agreed not to have children, throw them a party. Lavish them with praise for their wise and considered decision. They know themselves and have made the best possible choice. There is nothing worse than a mismatch between spouses who want different lifestyles, or people who have kids solely out of a feeling of obligation.

My brother and his wife are choosing to be child-free, and love borrowing nieces and nephews for regular spoiling and lavishing attention... and then they send them back. They are totally the fun relatives, and enjoy kids to the extent of their comfort zone.

I am one of thirteen cousins, and only three of us have children. I was the first to have them by choice, eleven years ago. The third just got married and had a baby a couple years ago. most of us are in our thirties and forties, so minds are not likely to change at this point, and I am very proud of those who chose wisely. I counseled them when their parents and relatives bugged them about kids, and told them that they were under no circumstances obligated to have kids just because others want to hold them at holidays. They were surprised and relieved to hear that from me, especially because they were afraid I'd try to recruit them. I say I have enough kids to share around, and they should live their lives guilt-free, so long as they keep on being the fun relatives. : )

Wed, 2009-02-11 09:09

thehighrise (not verified)

I think this particular Momversation would have sat quite well after Heather's initial comment alone (sorry, other moms!) She is right - it is a choice, period.

There are fanatics on both sides of the argument - as a former childfree by choicer I know only too well the voraciousness of some members of the anti-child brigade. My god, I was one of them up until 2 years ago (at the ripe old age of 33 - darn that biological clock)

But I did feel that some of the moms in this video are guilty of the exact same thing they are railing against, and were a bit too heavy on the 'Kids changed my life; I was ignorant/naive until I had kids' etc. That's not going to persuade the CFB!

Anyway, I am still childless (now, not by choice) but I love Momversation :)

Wed, 2009-02-11 09:17

Dana

I'm not sure I understand how Rebecca and I are guilty of anything. I wasn't trying to persuade anyone who has chosen to be childfree, rather, I was explaining the motivation behind my choice and the invalidity of claiming a form of discrimination while exhibiting judgment towards those who choose parenthood. Zat is all.

Wed, 2009-02-11 10:12

thehighrise (not verified)

Hi Dana

I know you're only explaining your own choice; a lot of the childfree folk are doing exactly the same.

I just felt that some of the soundbites leaned towards the 'I was naive/ignorant about children until I actually had them' I don't have children, yet I work with them, and respect and understand them - and their parents.

I think a great line to take is 'LIfe is weird. Don't ever rule anything out'

Wed, 2009-02-11 12:42

Dana

Not exactly the same; there's some hostility there which is sad because there needn't be.

This will sound un-PC but working with kids is not the same as raising kids. As a parent, I don't get to send my kids somewhere else at the end of the day or get weekends off. (Not that I haven't wished for that sometimes, though!)

Wed, 2009-02-11 16:08

gertie_lou

That is quite the generalization. If you have the luxury of being a stay at home mom you do not send your kids somewhere off for the night etc. But as a child care worker (in a very rough neighborhood) I can confidently say I spend as much or more time with kids who's parents need to work shifts, divorced and spend the weekends with the part time parent, and spend most nights with a babysitter. This is the rule not the exception.

Sun, 2009-02-15 22:12

acm

I'm not sure that "childfree" folks are worried about "limiting their life experiences" -- most that I have encountered are considering, e.g., the environmental impact of an additional child (big one), their own fitness to be parents, etc. It's got a lot more to it than fear of a fragmented family or worry about not going out on Friday nights.

Of course, the stridence comes from having to defend such a choice against societal and parental pressure/assumptions, and from feeling reamed because they don't get to take "parental leave" for their own non-offspring family obligations (think "elderly parents"). Still, harshing on the rest of folks as "breeders" just reverses the stigma/oppression, rather than eliminating it. [See 30 years of feminism for a different version of this same challenge; anti-patriarchy can't be equal to anti-men or people stop listening.]

great last comment, Mindy! surely there's room for all...

Wed, 2009-02-11 09:33

kellyfaboo

While I do believe there is a need for a non-screaming section in restaurants, unless I'm verging on a migraine I'm a lot more patient then I used to be. That child development course in college really helped me chill when children are loud.

Also parents today *tend* to teach their kids proper public etiquette, which really helps because there is child behavior then there is raised by wolves behavior.

I expect kids to wander, I expect parents to try to rein them in at least a little. I expect kids to get fussy, I expect parents not to force their children on shopping death marches during their nap times.

And screaming on planes for the really young is TOTALLY understandable because without earplanes (nifty pressure evening devices) my head like a son of a bitch hurts too. But for heavens sakes please make sure you have enough to keep your kids occupied because there is nothing more boring than commercial flights. Except maybe driving cross country, but then you can actually see stuff out the window.

It isn't children that bug me so much -- I think they are cute in small doses and I love teenagers and baby-3 year olds -- but parents who don't do right by their children because they think procreating is a rite of adulthood they must complete, not a serious job that they must devote a good portion of themselves to.

And if I hear one more time, "There is still time," or "You'll change your mind," in that knowing and completely disrespectful tone ...

I can crate my dogs all day and nobody calls CPS. Can't do that with a toddler.

Wed, 2009-02-11 10:48

gertie_lou

I agree 100%

Sun, 2009-02-15 22:13

OogaNooga

Alas, if only crating toddlers was socially acceptable...kids are a lot like special-needs dogs, I keep saying.

Tue, 2009-05-12 21:28

TEALOVER1606

I have no idea if I'll ever have children- I am at a place in my life where that isn't a pressing issue. However, my husband and I have been married for 5 years and we've been together for 8. So we frequently get asked about our reproductive plans. However, I have no problems explaining that I don't know, don't think about it. While a little rude, this line of questioning doesn't hurt my feelings or truly anger me. At least not to the point that I'd go blogging about it or ranting about other people's reproductive habits.

Many of my friends and family have children- all of whom I love dearly. I certainly don't have a problem with children in the public sphere and while a crying baby does grate on some nerves, I feel much worse for the poor parent who is actually trying to comfort their crying child while facing down all the glares from the public. Babies and kids are part of life- and in my opinion- a wonderful aspect of our world. How else do you think we'd continue on this earth folks?! If hating children is your forte- try to remember that YOU were probably once a child yourself. Just a guess...maybe I'm wrong and you're a robot or you took a page out of Greek myth and emerged from the womb as an adult.

I have friends who are not having children and I KNOW how annoying it is to be second-guessed or judged "selfish" or worse, be told that "you'll change your mind", as if your decision isn't something to be taken seriously. I think everyone's choices in life should be respected. And just because there are some nosy old biddys out there poking around in your private life, that doesn't mean that your frustration or scorn should come down on children or parents.

Wed, 2009-02-11 11:29